UW: Unlike in the original fairy tale, Duke Bluebeard is not faced with a nameless woman, but with Judith – a name that refers to the Old Testament figure of Judith. Right at the start, Bluebeard asks her whether, despite all the rumours, she really wants to come with him. What relationship dynamics are already evident in this?

LB: The reference to the biblical Judith is interesting because this Old Testament figure acts out of selfless motives: she puts herself in danger to protect others from a tyrant. In this, she stands in stark contrast to Bluebeard, who acts out of purely selfish motives.

In the opera, Judith is explicitly warned against going with Bluebeard. Nevertheless, she consciously chooses him – even though he represents darkness, danger and the unknown from the very start. Judith, on the other hand, is described as a life-affirming person who loves light and freedom. It is precisely this contrast that makes the dynamic between the two so compelling.

Parallels can also be drawn here with today’s so-called dark romance narratives. In these, a woman often falls in love with a man who is quite obviously dangerous, dominant or abusive. The warning signs are visible – and yet the hope remains that she can change or »heal« him through love. Similarly, Judith also seems to believe she can bring light into Bluebeard’s darkness.

UW: Why do people ignore warning signs in relationships?

LB: Not everyone reacts to warning signs in the same way. In Bluebeard’s Castle, one might initially think that many people would immediately distance themselves from a character like Bluebeard. But there are various reasons why that doesn’t always happen.

Some people may still be inexperienced and hope that the intense feelings from the beginning of a relationship can return – if only they invest enough love, understanding or patience. It is precisely this narrative that is also found in the opera: the hope of being able to positively change an obviously problematic person.

Added to this is the fact that dysfunctional relationships often begin with so-called lovebombing. The person involved experiences very intense affection and emotional closeness, which creates a strong bond. When control or violence later emerge, many cling to the memory of these beautiful moments.

Psychologically, so-called confirmation bias also plays a role here. People tend to perceive and interpret information in a way that confirms their existing hopes. In a dysfunctional relationship, this means that the brief positive phases are overvalued, whilst warning signs are suppressed or downplayed.

UW: Can the various chambers in Bluebeard’s castle also be interpreted psychologically?

LB: If one views the individual chambers as stages in a dysfunctional relationship, a very coherent psychological picture emerges.

At the beginning, Judith is still trying to understand Bluebeard. She believes she can influence him positively – even though he makes it clear from the outset that there is something dark and dangerous within him. The first chamber to open is the torture chamber: a symbol of this man’s capacity to deliberately inflict pain on others. Judith is frightened, but she does not run away. This, in particular, strengthens her hope that she might still be able to »save« him.

The armoury could be interpreted as a symbol of his defence mechanisms – his inability to allow genuine intimacy. Nevertheless, Judith sees it as a sign of trust that he is showing her these sides of himself.

This is followed by the treasure chamber, the garden and the kingdom – images of beauty, warmth and hope. It reminds me of what is known as love bombing: a phase of intense affection in which the relationship seems overwhelmingly positive and the hope grows that the couple can build something beautiful together.
But then the mood shifts completely, and through the Kingdom and the Lake of Tears, the opera shows how hope slowly gives way to control, emotional dependence and suffering. This is precisely what is typical of dysfunctional relationships: the harmful dynamic intensifies, whilst at the same time the person involved clings to the memory of the happy moments, hoping they might return.

In the end, Judith is completely under Bluebeard’s control. He appears to shower her with admiration and precious gifts, yet in reality she has lost her freedom and her own identity.

UW: It’s also interesting that even the seemingly positive spaces are never truly carefree. In the treasure chamber, blood clings to the treasures; the soil in the garden is bloodstained; and bloody shadows hang over the kingdom.

LB: That’s exactly what you find in real-life abusive relationships too. The positive phases almost never exist in isolation from the violence.

One perpetrator, for example, described to me how, after violent outbursts, he would deliberately give his partner flowers and expensive gifts, apologise and tell her she was the love of his life. Without the preceding violence, such a scene might almost seem romantic. In reality, however, it often serves to maintain the bond and keep the partner in the relationship.

That is why even the beautiful moments in such relationships are never truly unburdened. They remain forever linked to fear, control and violence – just as, in the opera itself, even the most beautiful scenes are already permeated by darkness.

UW: In the opera, Judith is initially the driving force: she demands the keys and pushes ever further. In the end, however, this dynamic is completely reversed. How would you describe this power dynamic?

LB: It’s interesting that the opera doesn’t follow the typical pattern of many modern dark romance stories. In those, the female character often manages in the end to change and »save« the dangerous man through her love.

In Bluebeard’s Castle, by contrast, the development seems far more realistic. Judith recognises the warning signs from the outset and yet believes she can influence Bluebeard positively. However, the more she learns about him, the clearer it becomes to her who he really is. At the same time, she increasingly loses her freedom.

In fact, she misses the moment when she could still have left. But at some point, the situation shifts completely: Bluebeard takes control and turns her – like the women before her – into a captive figure in his world.

UW: Behind the final door, Bluebeard’s former wives appear dressed like queens. At the same time, Bluebeard kneels before them. How does this fit with the fact that he previously came across as a controlling figure?

LB: At first glance, this image seems contradictory: Bluebeard appears to revere the women. Yet at the same time, they have lost their freedom and, ultimately, themselves.

It reminds me of real-life cases where perpetrators emphasise how much they loved their partner – whilst their actual behaviour was characterised by control and violence. Behind this lies often less a love for a real person than a love for one’s own idea of perfection and possession.

That is exactly what I see in Bluebeard. He idealises these women and seemingly elevates them to queens. But they are no longer allowed to be independent individuals. They become projections of his desires and fantasies.

UW: Is Bluebeard perhaps a prisoner himself? His castle does seem to reflect his own psyche.

LB: It’s interesting that Bluebeard doesn’t actually show any signs of distress at the end. From his perspective, he achieves exactly what he wants: maximum control over yet another woman. I therefore don’t get the impression that he sees himself as a prisoner. Rather, he keeps following the same pattern – and the opera suggests that this cycle will continue.

From my own work, I also know men who have been violent towards their partners and who initially justify or repress their behaviour. At the same time, patterns of manipulation and control often emerge, serving the need to exert emotional security through power.

Bluebeard, too, at times almost casts himself as a tragic figure – and gets Judith to want to save him quite early on. But that is precisely where the manipulation lies.